Thread: Weaponset changes
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Netherlands WNxUufje
05-03-2012, 03:23 PM
Local Time: 12:42 PM
Join Date: Dec 2010   #
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Event
Weaponset changes
It is time to tweak our weaponsets. We have a fairly good bunch of weaponsets, but it could use some improvements here and there, and that's what I made this topic for. I need your suggestions as to how we can do that. I've listed all the weaponsets below so you can check how our current ones are. Don't go over every set and suggest changes for every single one though, that would be a pain to keep track of. Just give general suggestions to how we can improve (e.g. less Klobbs, more Shotguns, better balance etc.) and possibly list examples of weaponsets that could use the improvements.

Some sets aren't subject to change in weapons, like the official sets, Alpha Only or donator's sets, those are only allowed to have a gamemode or weight change. You can't suggest new sets either yet. I'm planning to do that later when we have updated the current sets.

Well, let the discussion begin. I'll check this thread often, and partake in the discussion as well. I'll post a summary of the things that have been talked about now and then to keep stuff organized. If we have agreed about the things that need to be changed, I'll post some proposed changes in the weaponsets, and we can discuss those too. If we have reached a consensus about that as well, I'll save the changes.

Here are all the current weaponsets:

Official weaponsets    

Custom weaponsets    




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Venezuela WNx arturok1992
05-03-2012, 03:56 PM
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Xenia:

#1 - PP7
#1 - PP7
#2 - KF7
#3 - PHANTOM
#4 - AR33
#5 - RCP90
#6 - RCP90
#7 - GRENADE_LAUNCHER

Bond:

#1 - PP7
#1 - PP7
#2 - DD44
#3 - PP7_SILENCED
#4 - Sniper Rifle
#5 - D5K_SILENCED
#6 - D5K
#7 - SHOTGUN

Q's Lab:

#1 - PP7
#1 - PP7
#2 - PP7
#3 - Automatic Shotgun
#4 - SILVER_PP7
#5 - SILVER_PP7
#6 - RCP90
#7 - TIMEDMINE

Changes in blue.

About officials: Less weight for Explosives, Grenade Launchers and Rockets Launchers.



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Sweden WNxNalle
05-03-2012, 04:22 PM
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I looked through the custom sets and found my own (Nalle's selection). I noticed that the starting weapon is PP7 but it's supposed to be PP7s. I know this because the PP7 is better than PP7s and I wanted the starting weapon to be worse than anything you would pick up on the map.

I found what I believe to be the original post where I first suggested the set: http://warriornation.net/Forum/showt...post1318023218

I don't know when or why the change occured but I hope it's OK if it's changed back to what I originally wanted.



 
 
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WNxPPK
05-04-2012, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WNx arturok1992 View Post
About officials: Less weight for Explosives, Grenade Launchers and Rockets Launchers.
Amen. To the rest of the things you said as well, though I have a little something to add. Also, we can change the starter weapon on your set, Nalle.
Eastern Bloc (keep the weight):
#0 - KLOBB
#1 - KLOBB
#2 - KNIFE_THROWING
#3 - DD44
#4 - KF7
#5 - KF7
#6 - CMAG
#7 - SHOTGUN
XENIA (look below):
#0 - CMAG
#1 - CMAG
#2 - KF7
#3 - PHANTOM
#4 - AR33
#5 - RCP90
#6 - RCP90
#7 - GRENADE_LAUNCHER
Dr. No Pistol:
#0 - SNIPER_RIFLE
#1 - KNIFE_THROWING
#2 - KLOBB
#3 - SNIPER_RIFLE
#4 - SNIPER_RIFLE
#5 - KLOBB
#6 - SHOTGUN
#7 - AUTO_SHOTGUN
Proximity Minedead (this one should live up to it's namesake):
#0 - DD44
#1 - KNIFE_THROWING
#2 - KF7
#3 - KF7
#4 - ZMG
#5 - AUTO_SHOTGUN
#6 - AR33
#7 - PROXIMITYMINE
  • Alpha Weapons Only: rename it to Alpha Weapons and lower the weight to 15.

  • Shorten Dr. Kananga's Lucky Cards to Kananga's Lucky Cards.

  • Rename LTK Gold and Silver to Plenty's Tools, XENIA to Xenia's Thigh Crush, LTK Madness to Domino's Gamble, LTK Grenade to Death to Spies, LTK Power to Galore's Flying Circus, LTK Royale to Solitaire's Voodoo.

  • The sets that don't feature very powerful weapons (that is, no RL's, no GL's, no P90's, no AR33's and no Lasers) can all be added to MWGG. The sets that contain the aforementioned weapons should be removed from MWGG, if they are being used for that mode - since having such powerful weapons defeats the purpose of having the GG.

  • All sets should be on DM, YOLT, CTK, minus the LTK-exclusive ones.

  • Add Explosive Mayhem to the rotation, with a weight of 5, to all modes minus LTK, LALD and MWGG.

  • Lower the weight of the following sets to 20 or 25:
    • Alpha Weapons;
    • Jϊlio's Selection;
    • Mixed Set A and B;
    • Nalle's Selection;
    • Uufje's selection;
    • VirtualMark's Selection;
    • Automatics;
    • Grenades;
    • Lasers;
    • Rocket Launchers;
    • Shotguns;
    • Sniper Rifles.


    Increase the weight of the following sets to 15, or lower to 15 if they are above that:
    • Pistols;
    • BOND;
    • Ourumov;
    • Pistols Classic (add it to the rotation of DM, YOLT, LTK and CTK);
    • Q's Lab;
    • Valentin;
    • Xenia;
    • Power Weapons;
    • Rifles;
    • Grenade Launchers;
    • Rocket Launchers;
    • Explosives

  • Remove The Man with the Moonraker (unnecessary since we already have Moonraker Elite and the weight of the former is at 0),

  • Rename The Man with the Magnum Gun to something shorter, like Russian Roulette and make the set like this:
    • #0 - DD44
    • #1 - KLOBB
    • #2 - DD44
    • #3 - KLOBB
    • #4 - SNIPER_RIFLE
    • #5 - SNIPER_RIFLE
    • #6 - CMAG
    • #7 - CMAG
  • Rename Janus' Selection to Janus Special Forces and spice it up a bit like this:
    • #0 - DD44
    • #1 - KF7
    • #2 - KLOBB
    • #3 - ZMG
    • #4 - D5K
    • #5 - PHANTOM
    • #6 - GRENADE
    • #7 - AR33
  • Rename Mixed Set A to Red Grant and change it to something slightly different since both mixed sets look a lot alike:
    • #0 - DD44
    • #1 - CMAG
    • #2 - DD44
    • #3 - ZMG
    • #4 - SHOTGUN
    • #5 - ZMG
    • #6 - TIMEDMINE
    • #7 - SNIPER_RIFLE
I also think we should rename some of those sets with very generic names (such as LTK Madness, for example - Mixed Sets A and B are included) and name them after characters from the Bond universe (villains, allies, etc., depending on the weapons of the set - take Kanang's Lucky Cards) or puns or references to the GE64 game or the Bond universe (such as the Pea Shooters set). I can't think of any good names or puns right now (except Bond villains and characters, of course) so I'd like you guys to give suggestions that are short and sweet. Short because having a big name may make it go out of bounds on the GUI.

I also want to explain the reason why I requested lowering the weight of many sets: this way it adds more variety to the rotation since the difference in weight between these and the other sets was very big (twice or more in some cases) and that caused many sets to be skipped over and leave the server in the same rut of X's Selection - Explosives - Automatics - X's Selection and, with all due respect to the X's Selection creators, that becomes boring. I was just playing yesterday and all I saw were Automatics, sets with Explosives, Donators' sets and very little else (the odd Proxies Are Forever would pop up from time to time).

By having their weight lowered, it increases the chances of other sets coming up - though not all of them will have the same weight so some will still show up more often than others, though not as often as before.





Last edited by WNxPPK; 05-07-2012 at 03:55 AM..
 
 
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Netherlands WNxUufje
05-06-2012, 04:42 AM
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I agree with the weapon changes. I also wholeheartedly agree with the MWGG suggestion, having too powerful weapons will make the Golden Gun holder too weak, having weapons that are too weak will make the holder too powerful.

The weight changes look nice, however, I don't know if we should change the weight of Proxies are Forever to 15. I know proxies have been a sensitive subject and could lead to rage if they appear too frequently.

About the name changes; if anyone has suggestions, please post them here.

Also Nalle, since that set is yours, I'll include that change at your request.




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WNxPPK
05-06-2012, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WNxUufje View Post
I don't know if we should change the weight of Proxies are Forever to 15. I know proxies have been a sensitive subject and could lead to rage if they appear too frequently.
I removed it from the list. I also updated my post above with some new suggestions.



Last edited by WNxPPK; 05-06-2012 at 09:00 AM..
 
 
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Luxembourg WNxLyoshamuz
05-07-2012, 11:40 AM
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mmh i can't really think of any improvements, i think the weaponsets are balenced and varied



 
 
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United States WNxRobbeR49
05-07-2012, 02:53 PM
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  • If they aern't being used then get rid of them.
  • I think there are too many sets that are just variations with the same mid-range weapons (DD44, KF7, D5K/ZMG, shotgun, PP7...)
  • Regarding naming, I agree that some of the names could be less generic, but at the same time it would be nice if they were a little more descriptive too. Am I the only one who can't remember the difference between, say, Ouromov and Valentin?
  • Only other thing I can think of is to clean up any sets with illogical slots (weaker weapons in higher slots and vice versa).



 
 
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WNxPPK
05-07-2012, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WNxRobbeR49 View Post
  • I think there are too many sets that are just variations with the same mid-range weapons (DD44, KF7, D5K/ZMG, shotgun, PP7...)
You do have a point... We could try to discard the ones that are very repetitive and rework others so they have some more powerful weapons, or different variations of mid-range weapons. I thought about introducing more variety to some sets (look at my suggestion for the Mixed Set A, for instance) but discarding the ones that are too samey instead of just trying to rework every single one is better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WNxRobbeR49 View Post
  • Regarding naming, I agree that some of the names could be less generic, but at the same time it would be nice if they were a little more descriptive too. Am I the only one who can't remember the difference between, say, Ouromov and Valentin?
I never know the difference and I only vaguely remember some sets. The problem with descriptive names is that they work well for simple things, like Shotguns and Automatics. If we have a set with shotguns and automatic weapons, we could call it Shotguns and Automatics, but that would be too generic... The problem would come when you have different weapons, from pistols to shotguns to automatics to explosives. That's why I proposed naming the sets after Bond references or puns. Not to mention some of the vanilla sets already have the descriptive names.



 
 
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Netherlands WNxUufje
05-07-2012, 03:54 PM
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If there are too many "mixed sets", as I like to call them, then I think we should rework some so they have more powerful weapons in them. We don't have many balanced sets with the more powerful weapons, so for a greater variety I think we should adjust them instead of scrapping them.




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United States WNxRobbeR49
05-09-2012, 09:33 AM
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Just to elaborate after taking a few minutes to look at the sets one by one. I think all of the official sets and the LTK sets look pretty good, and most of the custom ones also.

Sets that probably need some balancing: Die Another Day, Xenia, Q's Lab. (you guys already addressed some of these)

Then there are there are the ones I was talking about that all seem to have the same mid-range weapons: Mixed Sets A & B, Nick Nack's Stash, Bond, Eastern Bloc, Janus' Selection, Ouromov, Uufje's Selection, Valentin, Trevelyn's DM (and MWGG) favorites.

Then there's the ones that aern't being used: Explosive Mayhem, Insane Smacking, Pistols Classic, Man with the Moonraker, the Tournament Sets and Wnx vs 1138.

My opinion is you might as well get rid of the two overpowered ones (smacking and Mayhem), Pistols Classic is ok so use it or lose it, and Man with the Moonraker is unbalanced and unneccesary. The tourney and Wnx vs 1138 sets were created for specific events so even though they aern't being used they should probably stay.

Lastly a couple other sets that stood out, I don't like Scientist's Selection at all, and we already have the very similar official Lasers set. Man with the Magnum gun is very similar to Sniper Rifles, as well as those other 11 ones I listed above.



 
 
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Netherlands WNxUufje
05-09-2012, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WNxRobbeR49 View Post
Sets that probably need some balancing: Die Another Day, Xenia, Q's Lab. (you guys already addressed some of these)
My proposal for Die Another Day:
• SLOTS:
#1 - CMAG
#1 - CMAG
#2 - KF7
#3 - PHANTOM
#4 - AUTO_SHOTGUN
#5 - SILVER_PP7
#6 - SILVER_PP7
#7 - RCP90
• WEIGHT: 5
• WEAPONSET CYCLES:
- Public EU/NA: DM, YOLT
- Private: NO
Quote:
Then there are there are the ones I was talking about that all seem to have the same mid-range weapons: Mixed Sets A & B, Nick Nack's Stash, Bond, Eastern Bloc, Janus' Selection, Ouromov, Uufje's Selection, Valentin, Trevelyn's DM (and MWGG) favorites.
We could probably change approximately three of those sets to include other weapons (e.g. Phantoms), like PPK did with Mixed Set A. Present your suggestions people, I'm all ears.
Quote:
Then there's the ones that aern't being used: Explosive Mayhem, Insane Smacking, Pistols Classic, Man with the Moonraker, the Tournament Sets and Wnx vs 1138.

My opinion is you might as well get rid of the two overpowered ones (smacking and Mayhem), Pistols Classic is ok so use it or lose it, and Man with the Moonraker is unbalanced and unneccesary. The tourney and Wnx vs 1138 sets were created for specific events so even though they aern't being used they should probably stay.
The ones that have a weight of 0 can still be used in fun nights or team practices, so I wouldn't remove them all. Maybe only scrap them if they are sets that are similar to others or absolute rubbish.




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WNxPPK
05-09-2012, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WNxRobbeR49 View Post
Eastern Bloc
After some consideration, I agree on removing that one. When I suggested it, my goal was to make it have weapons one could say were from the old Soviet block, hence the name, but the sets that contains such weapons are out there, and probably better, as you pointed out. Nick Nack's Stash was a little gimmick where every gun is small so it could see it's weight lowered to 5.



 
 
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United States WNxRobbeR49
05-09-2012, 07:54 PM
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Now we're gettin' somewhere.

Eastern Bloc isn't too bad, and I kind of like Nick Nack's. I actually think the weakest ones might be the 3 "Character" ones: BOND, OUROMOV, and VALENTIN.

I was thinking Janus was the logical place to add a phantom in slot 7, but that makes it pretty similar to automatics...

P.S. I have an idea for RobbeR49's selection, may have to prepare a donation to make that happen.



 
 
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Netherlands WNxUufje
05-14-2012, 04:51 AM
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What shall we do with Eastern Bloc? Rework it, keep it or ditch it?

Maybe we could rework Nick Nack's Stash like this:
• SLOTS:
#1 - PP7
#1 - PP7
#2 - CMAG
#3 - CMAG
#4 - D5K
#5 - D5K
#6 - PHANTOM
#7 - AUTO_SHOTGUN
• WEIGHT: 10
• WEAPONSET CYCLES:
- Public EU/NA: DM, YOLT, CTK, LD
- Private: NO

And OURUMOV like this:
• SLOTS:
#1 - DD44
#1 - DD44
#2 - CMAG
#3 - ZMG
#4 - KF7
#5 - D5K
#6 - PHANTOM
#7 - AR33
• WEIGHT: 10
• WEAPONSET CYCLES:
- Public EU/NA: DM, YOLT
- Private: NO




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WNxPPK
05-14-2012, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WNxUufje View Post
What shall we do with Eastern Bloc? Rework it, keep it or ditch it?
I say we ditch it. We can carry the theme to other sets, such as Valentin, Ourumov, etc. It you want to carry it, of course.

Nick Nack's Stash was supposed to have only small weapons, so a Phantom and an Auto Shotgun don't fit. I do think we should have a different starting weapon and a PP7 seems nice. We could also do it as such and lower its weight to 5:

#1 - PP7
#1 - KLOBB
#2 - CMAG
#3 - CMAG
#4 - ZMG
#5 - D5K
#6 - TIMEDMINE
#7 - THROWING_KNIVES

As for your suggestion for Ourumov, I think you should include a Shotgun where the ZMG is, or move the KF7 one slot down and put the Shotgun where the pencil used to be. It needs a close-quarters weapon that can command respect. Also, regarding your previous suggestion for Die Another Day, I like it.



 
 
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Netherlands WNxUufje
05-17-2012, 04:35 AM
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I thought Nick Nack's Stash was ideal to put those in so it doesn't look too much like Alpha Weapons. We could transform my suggestion into a separate set and call it "License to Die" or something (I'm bad at names). As for your suggestion, throwing knives do not belong in the last slot. Maybe move everything up once and put them in the first pickup slot.

Also:
OURUMOV
• SLOTS:
#1 - DD44
#1 - DD44
#2 - CMAG
#3 - SHOTGUN
#4 - KF7
#5 - D5K
#6 - PHANTOM
#7 - AR33
• WEIGHT: 10
• WEAPONSET CYCLES:
- Public EU/NA: DM, YOLT
- Private: NO




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WNxPPK
05-18-2012, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WNxUufje View Post
I thought Nick Nack's Stash was ideal to put those in so it doesn't look too much like Alpha Weapons. We could transform my suggestion into a separate set and call it "License to Die" or something (I'm bad at names). As for your suggestion, throwing knives do not belong in the last slot. Maybe move everything up once and put them in the first pickup slot.
It is nothing like Alpha Weapons. We could obviously go on a limb and say many, many sets are like one another because they share weapons...

The TK can be moved to the first slot but the goal of having it in the top slot was to allow you to have a decent starting weapon and the TK's would just be a novelty. You can do quite a lot of damage with them but it requires you to have a great accuracy. I am OK with it either way; I leave that up to the person who makes the weaponset changes effective.


I like the way Ourumov is set up in your last suggestion.



 
 
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Netherlands WNxUufje
05-18-2012, 08:13 AM
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It doesn't look like Alpha now, that was the point of my suggestion. I'd like both our suggestions to be used as separate sets. I was thinking with your suggestion to keep the PP7 as starter weapon, and put the TK's in the next slot.




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WNxPPK
05-18-2012, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WNxUufje View Post
It doesn't look like Alpha now, that was the point of my suggestion. I'd like both our suggestions to be used as separate sets. I was thinking with your suggestion to keep the PP7 as starter weapon, and put the TK's in the next slot.
The way you wrote it sounded like you meant the set was similar to Alpha Weapons, in my head... I am too fast on the trigger sometimes .

It should only be one set. The TK can be the 2nd weapon.



 
 
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