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Random Re-Structuring I Came up With...

Posted 11-05-2010 at 08:54 PM by WNxMaliciousWolf
This was going to be a response to WNxDrMath's blog post located here: [URL]http://warriornation.net/Forum/blog.php?bt=1392[/URL]

After some thought, I believe it deserves its own little spot on the Warrior Nation blog, so it'll be my first.

So ya, if you absolutely have nothing else to do, and want a few laughs or just experience that "this guy is crazy" feeling, feel free to read and make sense of the following ramble:P


I agree with the observations you've made here Math.

I believe another aspect that's directly related to the dwindling numbers of members with good leadership characteristics falls under how recruiting takes place. Not many members that recruit actually take the time and sit down with their recruits, prior to signing them up, and fully discuss what Warrior Nation is about and how it works. I myself also fall under this category quite often in my mass recruiting methods.

The reason for this, is that sometimes you'll have sections that come around with only a few current members interested. Ten are needed in order to actually have the game recognized and brought in WN, and for good reasons I can understand, such as establishing a good leadership base. The thing is, it's tough to recruit, and it takes quite a bit of time to sit down and fully discuss everything(or even an overview) of how Warrior Nation works. All of this time for just one recruit, when here 15 more are needed to achieve the 25 required, not counting the fact that some may have needed to be recruited to reach the 10 recognition cap. If you then couple this with the fact that so few members are actually interested in recruiting, quite a bit of stress is left on these few members who are recruiting to help bring the section into WN, for now they have to do even more work and set aside more time to get make up the slack and get these new members in themselves.

Quite honestly though, who has the time to do all of that? This then brings up advertising, and speed recruiting through use of forums and other means of communication to quickly get our clan out there, which more and more of this type of recruiting style is seen everyday. It's actually the only effective method that can be used truly for sections that don't have hardly and recruiters, and for those that do recruit don't have so much time on their hands. By using these methods, a large amount of members can be acquired in a short period of time, despite the lack of recruiters. This does come with a price though, and that's the lack of [I]quality[/I] members, for now it's traded off with [I]quantity[/I].

Due to this, so few recruits are informed on how things really work. Yes, there are those nice introduction threads showing who's the Major, Captain..., but most new guys think it's just some kind of "neat little recognition thing" They never truly grasp what really takes place behind the scenes, what those ranks really mean, and what it takes to obtain such ranks. This is where your previous guess of current "lackluster" applications for administration positions also ties in, for the same principle applies. That is, some(probably a bit more in the majority) of the current sectional leadership throughout WN don't truly grasp or understand what really happens behind closed doors in the Pentagon. This also applied to me when I was a Military police and Captain, and I still didn't fully grasp everything even during the time I was a Game Champion though come time I began Major, I really started to learn and grasp what goes on, hell, your actually one of those that gave me "true" info on the inner workings and I'm thankful for that. I believe this may come from the lack of leaders that wish to teach what they know to those few that actually wish to learn. This goes hand in hand with your observations of "us settling" for members in the current positions.

It basically boils down to the fact that we've degraded ourselves into this revolving circle of mess, that will only make us collapse onto ourselves unless we begin to change this attitude.

Poor recruits -> poor members -> poor sectional leadership -> poor administration

Poor recruits - Caused by poor recruiting methods due to lack of recruiting interest and/or available time for those recruiters that do recruit leads to,

Poor members - Caused by poor recruits being let in. Meaning that even less members become recruiters thous progressing back to "Poor recruits" and leading to,

Poor sectional leadership - Caused by poor members that lack leadership qualities due to the fact they where poorly informed by their recruiters due to previous stated facts. This can fall back on previous areas and lead to,

Poor administration - An unfortunate issue that has just started to arise over the last few months. This is due to the lack of and/or poor leadership out there due to previous stated issues. Lack of teaching keeps toughs less informed leading to poorer quality, which in turn right there can fall back once more.

It's like this whole process is only repeating itself, and it's slowly growing.

In my honest opinion, I believe we should fall back and start a new. Just restart everything with a simplified structure.

1. Change the minimal requirement for a section to be apart of WN from 25 to 15. We're losing numbers anyways, and I know the recent increase in numbers is just from the current hype of new games that will more than likely end up like you said.

2. Keep sectional leadership restricted to just a Major and a Recon Captain(Recon Captain will primarily focus on recruiting to reach "milestones" explained later, but should also help organize events). Less leadership required due to smaller starting off starting member base. Though instead of having 3 open spots once a section is released, your down to one. This means that there will be more focused competition for said rank, and a such, better leaders can be found.

3. Once a section reachs certain milestones of members(like 20,25,30 for example) slowly start introducing the other ranks. By doing this, your causing ranks to be focused at specifically one by one, so they can be filled properly.

4. Development should remain the same, though decrease the required number to 8. Find 2 good GCs to help lead the section throughout development. These 2 GCs will ultimately be your Major and Captain, and as such, will hopefully work harder in order to out do the other. Limiting it to 2 GCs also allows Development to specifically target and train just these two members, meaning that those members should be better prepared due to the gained attention. I can see where maybe Development might have to introduce a few more Engineers and possibly Admins in order take on the increase in sections so this "focused" plan can work effectively.

5. Administration should ultimately remain unchanged and can still operate with its current structure. The top heaviness that some may have complained about should no longer be heard, for the decrease in member requirement for sections means that even more sections should be released, meaning that all of those admins will be needed and have to work. This is where the boys/girls are separated from the men/women;)

By following the above method, everyone will ultimately be forced to focus on each aspect individually one by one. Though all of these aspects are shrunk in order to balance out the increase in sections.

So by doing this, more sections can be introduced into WN because of smaller requirement. Better trained GCs due to the fact that there won't be as many for each section. Because of smaller starting member base for each section, less leadership positions needed, more competition, meaning that better capable members should arise. Also less recruiting is needed to be done, so those new recruits that are brought in should be better informed. An increase of a new member every week for a new section in development would be ok, for that means the 15 mark could be reached in the shortest time for just 2 months, which is the current achievement rate at this current time for 25. With the "milestone" adding of each new leadership position, each position can be focused on one by one, and competition should be strong accordingly meaning that someone capable should once again arise. Pentagon should then focus on helping out sections once they leave development to continue the growth, and then sustain it. This allows sections to develop one step at a time so everything garners more focus.

So in short, break down ranks in sections into "milestones", and basically just introduce them one by one so each one gets specific attention. This process, hypothetically, can correct the issues mentioned before hand overtime.

It's a big random mess of an idea, for I basically just tried to come up with an entire new structure right there. I'm not saying that this [I]will[/I] fix anything, or is better than the current WN structure. I just believe that something like this or related to it, can correct the problems that Math mentioned.

It needs work obviously, for this is just some rough idea that hit me while I read Math's post. I wanted to get it down on paper before it slipped my mind, for who knows, maybe it may just become the next structure lol. All seriousness though, this is just an idea, and as such probably doesn't make sense to the majority of you for I tend to jumble things around that may make sense to mr, but obviously probably not for you:P

Feel free to comment, bash it, revise it, or just basically miss around with I guess lol. I don't believe that this will realistically be implemented though, or at least something related to this structure I came up, unless we lose a lot of numbersmembers. It's just starting all over pretty much, hell, I probably just quoted the exact structure when WN was first built for all I know...
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  1. Old
    [QUOTE]3. Once a section reachs certain milestones of members(like 20,25,30 for example) slowly start introducing the other ranks. By doing this, your causing ranks to be focused at specifically one by one, so they can be filled properly.[/QUOTE]


    Wolf, you're a damn crazy 17 year old.
    Posted 11-05-2010 at 09:18 PM by
  2. Old
    WNxZeus's Avatar
    I agree with the post.... Not 100% on what I think or what I agree with, but I do agree in some way xD
    Posted 11-05-2010 at 09:24 PM by WNxZeus WNxZeus is offline
    Updated 11-05-2010 at 09:26 PM by WNxZeus
  3. Old
    Ya, that's all I'm expecting anyways Zeus. It's more of a pool of ideas strung together in some kind of structure. It needs lots of revisions for sure, and of course only contains my opinions. Still it's nice to see some things can be agreed on lol.
    Posted 11-05-2010 at 09:38 PM by WNxMaliciousWolf WNxMaliciousWolf is offline
  4. Old
    Some great ideas/suggestions there Wolf.

    I'm all for reverting back to quality over quantity and actually using the trial periods for exactly that, trials. By making the starting numbers smaller this becomes more viable.
    Posted 11-05-2010 at 10:00 PM by
  5. Old
    Wolf, go read some of my blogs if you haven't already. I believe we share some of the same thoughts, even if mine are perhaps more radical
    Posted 11-05-2010 at 10:17 PM by WNxHorizon WNxHorizon is offline
  6. Old
    I actually just read some of them Horizon lol. Ya, we do have similar views on some of the issues. I can see some of the points you made with development that can be oriented around what I just posted, and how we also think the explanations are just to overwhelming for new members. The shortened policies/laws are actually good ideas. I say the main law page can stay as it is, but those descriptions you gave can easily be added to the bottom of the main law page as a quick summary I guess for those that just want the main idea now. Same goes for ranks. Could also be a nice list to read off to new recruits along with referring them to the main law/rank page so they can better understand it after you had just read off the quick overview
    Posted 11-05-2010 at 10:39 PM by WNxMaliciousWolf WNxMaliciousWolf is offline
  7. Old
    WNxZeus's Avatar
    I honestly think you should start a post about this, got something going .... Would be nice to hear the clan opinion... Although people don't like "major" or even "minor" change still seems like a good thing to bring up.... Some great ideas
    Posted 11-05-2010 at 11:58 PM by WNxZeus WNxZeus is offline
  8. Old
    WNxDavott's Avatar
    Your putting far, far, far too much focus on rollcall numbers that realistically tell us nothing :S
    Posted 11-06-2010 at 04:20 AM by WNxDavott WNxDavott is offline
  9. Old
    I don't know, he's putting the emphasis on rollcall in the respect that he has to because that's what start up sections put the emphasis on anyway. By making the required numbers lower his idea is that we can spend the time bringing in quality recruits rather than struggling to get the current numbers so we're settling for crap ones.

    If we had 15 quality members in every new section that would far outweigh the benefits of having the extra 10 registered members who contribute jack shit and end up getting DD'd or HD'd because they couldn't be bothered reading laws or just aren't active at all.

    For an example at what a section with small numbers yet dedicated members can do you have to look no further than the MW2 Xbox EU section, those guys kicked ass in the console bo challenge because their whole section are dedicated to the cause.

    So dedication + quality = thriving section, rather that stupidly great numbers + tons of inactives.

    Btw that whole thing wasn't a response to you Davott, it started off that way and them went into incesent rambling lol :P
    Posted 11-06-2010 at 06:45 AM by
  10. Old
    In general I think WN has lost its focus on quality and slowly started to focus on quantity. We want more game sections, because well it looks better when we have more. We have acquired more ranks, because it is argued more people working will make everything better. As long as sections are large, Recon rarely needs to deal with them. If we had fewer sections and generally concentrated on those that are really strong or show a strong desire to step up, in my opinion, we'd have a more communal and dedicated WN.
    Posted 11-06-2010 at 09:45 AM by WNxHorizon WNxHorizon is offline
  11. Old
    WNxTHINbot007's Avatar
    I personally think that your onto a winner wolf!

    The main problem I see (only been here three months so forgive me for jumping above my station) is that it seems that the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. We here rumours and hearsay about a mythical Pentagon but nobody other than the upper member of the clan know what is going on in there. The members are baffled by laws, sublaws, unwritten codes of conduct and the list goes on and on.

    I agree completely that the poor members are a result of the target driven ideology that has befallen the warrior nation. If we have to get so many members in just to out a section out of DEV well, of course you will end up with a cluster of bad eggs amongst the good. And as everybody knows, one bad egg is all it takes to spoil a good bunch. We definately need people to look at how we recruit and what keeps us different and above those clans out there that are just spamming recruitment whores!

    I joined the nation becuase I thought that it was not about trying to gain the most members, it was about keeping an active manageable number of friendly gamers who wanted to talk games - and mostly gaming related things in a nice, cosy environment with morals and ethics in place that benefited and protected every member.

    But the message seems to have been lost and constrived amongst all the beaucracy that is here. We seem to have more red tape than members . I am not saying that we should have anarchy and no laws with all members running around in an EPICALLY GRAND FFA as this is no good for anyone. What I am saying is that we should look to open the doors up more, let members see the inner workings of the inner sanctum. If you know what is going on in there then maybe you will want to raise your game to get in there.

    Also (as I have now mimicked Wolf and started to jumble together all sorts of ideas into one fluid stream of MEH rubbish?) I agree completely about the leadership of sections. It seems that we have more members in the nation who are captains than members in sections! Or is that just not being able to see the wood for the trees. The milestones idea is fantastic and also loweing the level of requirement for sections to exist is also a brilliant idea, although fraught with the pitfall that you could end up with a number of 'ghost town' sections as smaller numbers for a section to exist makes it increasingly harder to monitor the activity of those sections and also makes the waters much muddier as it were, to determine when the section should be archived, finally there is the issue of space contraints on the warrior nation website itself, lots and lots of seldom used areas or sections is a drain on resources. But MEH this is only a written idea stream and not the LAW (watching judge dread at this point, cheesey but a classic )

    if any of that makes sense then bravo to you who understood it, and for those of you who have not understood it or think its drivel then MEH i thought the same when writing it ! rep wolfy boy!
    Posted 11-19-2010 at 08:03 PM by WNxTHINbot007 WNxTHINbot007 is offline
  12. Old
    awesome work.....i have found that most recruits i have found is ...if they are not fully aware of the clan structure and what being part of it is...they just leave...its more than three letters in front of your name...its forum activity,in game work,section building and a great amount of comraderie ...these are things that most people dont consider or even get informed of.....

    i joined when someone...my recruiter(thanks madden) in a recruiting contest....blanket pmed my psn....and i was looking for a clan of guys who would be cool to play with and forums to post in and it is...

    but i digress
    Posted 06-22-2011 at 03:19 AM by

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